Part 2: Mary Warner on From Fear to Freedom

Nadine 00:45

I do want to kick us off with a verse, if that's okay, and it's Romans 12:2 and it says, "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." There's more to it, but I'm going to stop there, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so Mary, today we want to hear from you of how does a woman shift her mindset? Maybe we start with like, why does that matter? Why does that matter? Why does mindset matter? And then how do you do it?

Mary 01:23

Well, why it matters is, you know, mindset starts with your thoughts and then also how you feel about your thoughts, what they mean to you. And then out of that flows your emotions and because of whatever emotions you have, then you have your actions—or reactions most likely. And then. . .then that generally doesn't end well in relationships or in work. It's usually not thought out. It's usually emotional and often not appropriate for what level of angst the situation should have caused because your thoughts have already enlarged everything. And then you generally go through a cycle of pretending things are fine, and then you start over. And, and so you're stuck, basically. You're stuck in a cycle that keeps you from moving forward. That keeps you from deepening your relationships. That keeps you from getting better in your career. I mean, it keeps you truly stuck.

Nadine 02:16

What I heard you say is, toxic or unhealthy mindset leads to unhealthy emotions and actions that keeps you stuck from being who you're created to be and living the life you're created to live.

Mary 02:42

Exactly. You're just bypassing the whole thing and you're just making a deeper and deeper and deeper rut.

Nadine 02:49

Yeah, and here's the thing about mindset that always gets me at least excited and just gives me so much hope. I decide that.

Mary 02:58

And that's in the verse you read, there were two things that let you know that that's your responsibility. That's not like God's gonna force this into your head. It's like—do not conform, that is you. You do not conform. So what does that mean? I have to set up some limits. I have to decide which things are okay for me to be thinking about, which things are not, and then be renewed. If I've taken some things out and said they're not okay, then there must be something that I need to replace that with because you can't just leave your head empty. It's not gonna stay empty. So you have to not conform and then you have to renew and you have to choose what you're renewing with. So.

Nadine 03:35

That's right. That's so good. I got to point stuff out. I'm like, this is just so much wisdom. And I'm like, I need to make sure they heard this. The first thing I heard you say that I don't want anybody to gloss over is my mindset is my responsibility. Like you are responsible for your mindset, not your husband, not your kids, not your circumstances, not your bills, not your past, not your trauma, not your story, not your junk.

Mary 04:00

Absolutely.

Nadine 04:13

Like you are responsible for your mindset. I know you didn't say it just in that way, but I just was like, man, I just think if more of us would take responsibility and own that, we would have such freedom. And we get — We get our power back.

Mary 04:25

Right. And so often where we start is we don't even understand that we have control over our thinking. We think our thinking is what controls us and that once there we have to react to it. But we can learn to step back, to analyze our thinking, to change it, to decide, to assign our own meaning. You know, one of the things I'm constantly saying is events are neutral. You assign meaning. But in the beginning, we're not aware that we're assigning meaning, we're just reacting based on our past, based on our circumstances. and one thing about the whole wisdom piece, one of the first things, and I don't know where I read it, but it's like, you want, well, the Bible says, if you want wisdom, ask for it. But more detailed than that is, if you want to learn wisdom, spend some time in the first three or four chapters of Proverbs. So that was one of the first things I did was go to Proverbs and just keep reading them and try to soak up what, you know, do read different versions because not all of them speak the same language. So, you got to get a wide range to get all of what it's actually saying. And that's important to begin to understand. Like Nadine said, this is your responsibility.

If you don't do it, nobody will do it for you. Nobody can do it for you. Just like you couldn't do it for someone else.

Nadine 05:51

Yeah. Yeah, that's also a big point. Like you can't do it for someone else. That's their responsibility. Something else you said that I need to point out, you said replacing your mindset. And I think that's a really big deal because it's like, you—you could have a mindset of sadness, for example, or fear. Let's call it a mindset of fear. And I think a lot of people are like, well, I want to stop being so afraid. I want to stop being so afraid. And instead of replacing it, they dwell on

Mary 06:00

That they don't want.

Nadine 06:24

What they don't want. And that actually is digging deeper. Right?

Mary 06:26

And you get what you focus on. Exactly, you get what you focus on, and so it just gets bigger.

Nadine 06:34

Yeah, so at least be replaced with something healthy. And I love the verse that says, “Perfect love casts out fear.” So if I have a mindset of fear, then my focus isn’t perfect love. My focus is God and His character and His attributes and His, and that's what I should dwell on. So anytime fear creeps up, instead of me going, I don't want to be afraid, I go to, I replace it. I replace it with God and His character and His attributes and His goodness and His faithfulness and—That's an example, but I love that you said replace.

Mary 07:08

Yes, yes, and you get to choose what you're going to replace it with and so, the love is the best foundation and then go after some skills because you have ended up in a situation that doesn't work for you because of your mindset, because of what you learned, because of whatever reasons are out there so as you gain strength—Another verse that you had was the one of in 2 Timothy about God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power and strength.

Nadine 07:43

Yeah, I have it right here. It says, it's 2nd Timothy 1:7. It says, "For the spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love, and self-discipline." And there's different versions, you know, so you'll get different words, but yeah, it's a good one to call out.

Mary 08:01

So yeah, and self-discipline is a big piece of it because what you find is before in less healthy mindsets and negative mindsets, you tend to not do things that don't feel good. You don't do things that cause more pain because you're trying to avoid pain. But there isn't any way to get from here to there without stepping through some things that are somewhat painful. When you first start to learn what healthy boundaries are and you start to express those to the people closest to you, you're going to meet resistance and you're going to need that strength, not only of the love, but also of the community. Like I've talked about before, building a support system. You won't get very far if you try to do it alone. You do not heal in isolation. You have to build a support system. It doesn't have to be huge, but it needs to be more than one person.

Nadine 08:55

It needs to be healthy.

Mary 08:56

It needs to be healthy. Yes, it's not somebody who's going to sit and triangle with you about how horrible somebody else is. This is about, basically, you need to be learning about yourself, not complaining about someone else. It's always about, what about me do I need to change in this situation?

Nadine 09:10

Yes. Say that again.

Mary 09:18

It's about, what is there about me that I need to change in this situation? Whichever situation you have to be in at the moment because in the first place, you are the only thing you have the power to change and that's hard because of the self-discipline and all the things that go with it and the fear. And so it's hard and that's maybe some of the reason we get so focused on trying to change somebody else and we don't have to look at our own stuff.

Nadine 09:23

Yeah, it's like avoiding ourselves. Is that what it is? Like we just don't want to see our own crap. So it's, we'll just dwell on somebody else's.

Mary 09:50

Yeah, because we know what they should be doing. But if we look at ourselves, even if we know what we should be doing—changing thought patterns, changing habits, changing everything—I mean it's hard work. And it does get worse before it gets better because you're gonna meet resistance. And so again, that's why you need the support system. That's why you need the group of people. At some point I had a therapist and support group and any kind of group they had going at church. I had someplace to go every day so that I could,like, take in some strength.

Nadine 10:34

Yeah, I can relate to that. At one point I had three coaches, a therapist and support groups. Like, I needed a whole army to manage my mindset, you know? So I...

Mary 10:44

Right. Right. So don't be telling yourself, I should be able to do this because you shouldn't. You're not going to get better alone. You're not going to get healthier alone and you're not going to get to the point. Well, like, you know, there's always more. And even now I've been doing this for a long time and there are still things I struggle with. Wow. Can I really do that? I probably should give up or, you know, all the things that we tell ourselves, I still do that. And then I still have to say, wait a minute. What's really true? It may be hard, but is it true that you can't? Or is it just true that you don't want to take that risk? Is it just true that it's more trouble than you want to put up with right now? So tell yourself the truth always, and that's not always easy either.

Nadine 11:18

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. So it's interesting because you're sharing and I'm sitting here taking notes and I almost put together, like, an outline. I have like five steps of what you just said to mindset, to shifting your mindset, to healthier mindset, which leads to healthier, happier life, leads to freedom. So the first one that I wrote down is take responsibility. And I wrote, it starts with me and it starts with truth.

Mary 11:56

Yes, speak the truth in love. Absolutely my favorite Bible verses and they're both in Ephesians and look them up, you know, that speak the truth and you can't go wrong with that.

Nadine 11:59

Yeah. The second thing I wrote is identify the unhealthy mindsets. Like it's like you almost have to dig it up and pay attention and notice what's working, what's not working. Like that's some time and I, I agree with you. I think having a community and a support system will help you figure that out because you can't do it all by yourself.

Mary 12:19

Exactly. Right, because you get feedback and people will say, wait a minute, how does that make sense? Or you'll see it in someone else and say, that doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't she do this? And then you'll think, that's me. So wait, I needed to hear that.

Nadine 12:41

Yeah. The third thing I wrote down is replace our thoughts, which I kind of talked about already, but like being intentional about what am I going to replace this unhealthy mindset with? And then I heard you say, develop skills and habits. Sorry, Mary, was there something you wanted to say about that one?

Mary 13:01

What was the one? Tell me. Replace your thoughts. No, go ahead. I forgot.

Nadine 13:03

Replace thoughts. In and out, I like it. That's how I am. Number four is develop skills and habits. I heard you say that, and I kind of want to dive a little bit more there. What are some skills? What are some habits there that you would encourage women to develop? I heard you say a couple things, but I think it would be good to dig apart a little.

Mary 13:26

You know, I mean, there are several. Listening instead of speaking would be one. Really, you know, they talk about active listening and listening to understand. You're not listening to decide what you're going to say in return. You're listening to really completely understand what the other person is saying to you. So, and it's also to avoid giving an immediate reactive kind of answer because we all live by scripts. We do the same stuff over and over and over. So if somebody comes at you in a way that you're used to, then you're gonna, like, spout what you normally spout, even if it's the last thing you wanted to say. For me, I would always say yes to whatever the request was. So I had to learn, you know, just grit your teeth, count to 10, give your brain a little time to engage. And I learned to say to my kids, if you need an immediate answer, it will be no. If you're going to give me time to think about it, we'll come back and talk about it.

Nadine 14:22

That's good.

Mary 14:23

But you have to stop yourself from being in that reactive mode. And you have to pay attention to what other people are saying. I can't avoid bringing up journaling as a skill. It's the best way to get to know yourself better. It's also an excellent way to connect with God because in, like, standard prayer my mind can wander and I'm off doing something else in my head until my time runs out.

Nadine 14:35

I'm in my to-do list. I'm thinking about what I can buy for gifts for a party coming up. Yeah. I'm thinking about dinner. Yeah.

Mary 14:57

Yes. So journaling is really helpful if you would do that. I'm famous for telling people, if you sit down and you think you have nothing to say, then you start writing, I have nothing to say. But Mary told me I should just keep writing until my pen starts saying something other than I don't have anything to say. So whatever pops into your head, because it's like layers packed in there. So that top layer is your resistance. And so you just write whatever comes up and eventually what the next level is will come to the surface and you will get better at it.

Nadine 15:22) Yeah. Wow, I don't know. I mean, I've been. . .The top layer is resistance. So you got to get past that. That's so true. So good. Gotta get past the resistance. Yeah. I have read more books on all these topics and I mean, find the good books, get references on who are the good authors, listen to podcasts. But it's like, if you do this an hour a week, like when you have a coaching meeting or a therapy meeting, if you do this an hour a week, then you've got all those other hours drenched in whatever is going on.

Nadine 16:13

Yeah.

Mary 16:14

So that's not nearly enough. So I have my car, I have podcasts going, I always have a book handy that I can read when I'm not doing something else. More than always, more than meaning. And then the other people to talk to about it, people who are learning the same stuff. Because if you talk to the other people who know you the way you were and want you to stay the way you were, then you'll just get pulled back. They'll tell you, well, that's crazy stuff. I can't tell you how many people told me, “Don't know why you do that. Why do you spend all this time reading those books? Why do you go to those meetings? Why are you always taking classes?” I am because I want my life to be what it's supposed to be. I want it to be fulfilling. I want my brain to be learning things. I want, I want people, people that really are like in relationship with me, not just people that happen to be inhabiting the same room.

Nadine 17:21

Yeah, that's good. So, you know, taking responsibility, identifying the unhealthy mindsets, replacing our thoughts, developing those skills and habits, and then having a support system. And I'm going to add one more just from what you just said, and that is invest in yourself. There is no better person, thing, investment, than you to invest in because as you invest in yourself, your thoughts are gonna get healthier. Your perception of yourself is gonna get healthier. And then your life starts to change because it's an inside job, right? Like if you wanna change what's on the outside, you gotta start inside. I love it.

Mary 18:00

Yeah. And thing about that is nobody can take that away from you. You know, it's not about gaining anything that people can see on the outside that could be gone because we're in a depression next week or any of those things. It's like what nobody can take this away from you. And it will change how you live. It will change how you relate to people. And the more you can be this way and the more truth you can speak with people in relationship, even the hard truth, then the deeper and more intimate your relationship becomes because then you get to truly know each other.

Nadine 18:32

Mm-hmm. Good. So we're at about that time. Is there anything else that you want to wrap up with, Mary? And then I'll close this out with a verse that I'd like to leave everybody with.

Mary 18:48

I think the biggest thing that I want to say is don't avoid this. It's scary, it's hard. Don't avoid it and don't try to do it alone. Connect with people and start moving forward because life is meant to be lived and it's supposed to be lived in joy. Go looking.

Nadine 18:53

Yeah. And it's worth it. It's worth it. You're worth it. You are worth it. That's beautiful. The verse that I wanted to leave us with is from Philippians 4:8. And so if you are a lover of scripture, you can just close your eyes and receive this. If not, take what you like and leave the rest. But it says, “Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things.” We get to decide what we think about. It's our responsibility. We love you sisters. We believe in you. And let's just keep getting better one day at a time. Thanks, Mary.

Mary 19:59

Thank you. It’s great being here.